Interview with Space Capital

Tags: Interviews with Poppers, Space Capital

Space Capital has been repping the Chicago popping scene since 1979 and has been one of the key OGs who helped bring the scene back from the early 90’s. Staring the first Popping website to inform and educate the new generation, he has made huge contributions to the scene. He now runs www.4dapoppers.com and continues to share his knowledge and passion for this artform.

When did you start Popping?

I started popping in the fall of 1979. The popping scene was very big before I started it in Chicago, Illinois.

What got you into popping? At what age?

I was around 13 or 14 years old when I started Popping. I was already doing the robot dance since the mid 70’s. Back then as a dancer we did many dances. I was known as a dancer in my area, so it was a challenge learning new dances. Popping was a cool dance back then, all the cool guys and gangs used to pop in the earlier stages of this dance. Popping started getting more complex and it started looking more and more like an art form to me.

At the time you got into popping, how many people were already doing it? Can you describe their styles? What kind of music were you guys dancing to?

In 1979, it was a very big scene when it came to popping in Chicago, Illinois. I started popping because the scene was so big and many guys/gals was getting known for being good in this dance. At this time we were mostly dancing off of Funk music and Disco music in 1979. Chicago was more into straight popping in 1979. We were mostly doing different hitting styles with twist-O-Flexes, walks, steps and glides. There were people also doing a lot of Mime movements with popping to.

How did you get your name?

My cousin used to come up with names for everybody that hang with us doing the late ‘70s. He started calling me Capital, when we used to ball at the playgroup. Other people in the community started calling me Capital. I don’t know why he started calling me Capital. When I started getting more into popping I used to perform a lot in the community at all types of events. One day a lady came up to me and say you looked so unreal and space out when you dance. I didn’t have a dancing name at the time, and since everybody was calling me Capital, I added Space in front of Capital and that is how I got my dancing name. From then on, I called myself Space Capital. I always wanted to look unreal when I dance.

Who are some of the dancers that made a real impact in your area? The art form in general? What did they do to take this dance to the next level?

In The Chicago area these are the groups and individual dancers I can remember that made a major impact on Chicago scene back in the ‘80s: Street Patrol (Jerry, and Taurus), Mechanical Men’s (Mechanical man), Venus Electronic (Melvin), Tidal waves (Rubber Ron, and the other member I don’t know his name. He used to dance for the R&B group called the Gap Band. We started calling him Baby Gap.), and Mendoza. These were the groups/individuals that were popular in the earlier stages of popping in Chicago. Street Patrol was very good with hitting and snake movements. Mechanical Men’s were very good with the robot pop style of popping. Venus Electronic in the earlier stage of popping was one of the most popular pure popping groups in Chicago in the ‘80s. They were known for Snaking also, it seemed like the South side of Chicago were very good Snakers, and the Westside of Chicago was very good in stop and go movements (this is just my opinion). Tidal waves were the most popular group in Chicago area. They were breakers and Poppers. Many people were scare of this group in Chicago. They traveled all over the USA performing and battling in many states. There poppers did a little of everything when it came to popping.

I was in a group called the Comic Force. Comic Force and Electric Dominos were more like second generation popping groups. I started in 1979 and I was mostly just a local dancer. I started traveling more around 1981. We both battled against each other many times and we both started getting more popular in the mid ‘80s. There were so many groups out back then and I can’t remember all of them. Here are a few more dancers that were very popular:

Fat Jaw (very good in stop and go movements (ticking, strobin’, 3D, dimepstop), the one I gotten most of my stop and go movements from), Frank (ticking) Scarecrow (he was the one that danced with a lot of character and mime movements, he did a lot of scarecrow movements with his dance)., Karl (he was in the same group I was in and he was very good in tuts and snaking. I learned snaking from him, even thought I’m still not very good in it today.), There are many more groups I just can’t think of at this movement.

Were you in a crew? If so which?

I was in many dancing groups. I was in a crew in the Austin Area of Chicago called the little Muppets; we were the small group of the Muppets. Crescendo was in the Muppets (now he stays in California and host the Street dance competition). This was around the mid ‘70s. In this group I was good in Robotic movements. We were a locking and robot group at the time. Then I moved to the Lawndale area in 1979 at the time that Popping was coming in. I danced solo for a little while and in the early ‘80s we started a Popping and breaking group called Cosmic Force, a name that one of our member gotten from a crew in New York City. I was also in a House group called the Hydromatics. Then I started dancing with other groups and productions in the mid ‘80s.

Are you in a crew now? if so which?

At this moment I’m not in a crew. I would love to join a crew, I just don’t know if I have the time.

Where were you from? Where are you now?

I’m from Mississippi, but I was raised most of my life in Chicago, Illinois. I stayed on the Westside back in the ‘80s and now I’m on the Southside of Chicago today.

How different was the Los Angeles scene compared to Chicago scene? What brought you and your family to Chicago? What were some of the cities that were known for having great poppers?

Chicago poppers danced a lot like California poppers. We were into a lot of stop and go movements in Chicago. I remembered seeing Fat Jaw them for the first time doing stop and go movements all the way back in 1979. California was known for hard hitting back in the ‘80s. Chicago did pretty much all the same thing California did, we just was not as good as them in hitting and animation. We had good wavers, snakers, tutters, gliders, etc, we just could not hit and animate as good as California poppers back in the early ‘80s. As time went on our hitting did get a lot better. Dallas was the other spot that were known for good poppers back then.

You have been in various TV shows and performances, can you tell us more on how you got involved? What was it like? Which one was your favorite?

I danced in a few TV productions, Rappin’ Roots, local Dance Fever Contest, and danced on a lot of local shows via Television. I would have to say that Rappin’ Roots and Dance Fever contest was my favorite. I like the fact that I talked my way on the productions of Rappin’ Roots and became an assistant choreographer for the street dancers. What I liked about Dancer Fever was that we competed against Ballet, tap, jazz, and other dancers. Back then I loved doing performing type competition, and it was something about proving that Poppers were just as good as those other dancers. We came in Second place and were schedule to go on Dance Fever. Dance Fever show was cancelled the following season. I also enjoyed my solo dancing I did at the Fine Art building back in the ‘80s. I did a piece call the Unknown dancing object for a ballet and jazz production.

We understand you are one of the first people to build a popping community online? Can you tell us more about that and how that came about?

In 1995 it was a very small dance community online. A breaking site called “Cardboard Only” was the only site for a while. I was one of the guys that use to help with the popping questions on that site. The webmaster of Cardboard only helped me with starting my popping site. He told me where to go and get information regarding html, how to host the site, etc. In 1996 I started the first Popping site. I received so many questions regarding “how popping started”, and people wanted to know could I interview some of the older poppers. I was one of the first people to start this process. The other person was Thomas from Chain Reaction. I was the first to bring it to the internet. I started interviewing and talking to many poppers from California. I started traveling to California hoping to be able to interview older poppers from that area. Since I was popping for so long, I just wanted to get an understanding of the history. I also was tired of reading articles about dancers from other media.

I started asking other dancers for their input when I started bboy.com in 1997. Bboy.com was my second site, it was a site that me, fresh, Kujo and other worked together on. The mission was to have a breaker and popping site. Bboy.com took off and became so popular. We didn’t know it would take off that fast. From 1997 to about 2001 Bboy.com was the most popular breaking and popping dance site. We helped many sites get off the ground directly and indirectly. We also became a benchmark for many street dance sites. We were one of the first street dance site featured in The Source Magazine, UPN L.A as site of the day, Interviewed by Wall Street Journal, and was featured in New York Times, New York Post and many publication around the world. Due to the success of the site created envy from other dancers.

Was there a certain style your area was known for?

Chicago poppers did many movements, There were a certain hitting style I noticed over the years that I only saw in Chicago. We also focus a lot on stop and go movements.

We keep hearing that back in the day, no one danced like each other. Each crew had their own styles and individuality. Please explain how that was, and what you see in today’s scene. What are the new generations missing? How can we achieve it?

I believe the one thing the current generation is missing is self. I believe they just have to look into self and try to be more of themselves. They are doing very good when it comes to dancing, they just don’t focus on self. Stop looking outside so much and look inside. That is what is missing today, back in the ‘80s we did all the same movements, we added ourselves to it and I think that is the biggest different. Why is it that so many dancers look so much alike? They look so much alike because people don’t want to take their time and truly learn this dance, so everybody is taking the shortcut routine. This is why the unique dancers today standout more, it’s because they are being themselves.

What do you think is the major differences between today’s scene and before?

We danced for the crowd and today dancers are dancing for poppers. We didn’t care what other poppers think of us because we looked at them as our competition.

Who were some known poppers back then? What made them known?

Kelo (Cosmic Force) – my dance partner and a member of the Cosmic Force group. He loved battling, and he was very good in glides (one of the best that I have ever seen), waving, tutting, and he did this Chicago style hitting. He was like a clown when it came to popping and it used this to his advance.

Mechanical Man (Mechanical Men’s) – He was Chicago dancing robot. He was very good in this dancing robot style. He also had a major influence on a lot of Chicago poppers back then. I started mixing robot and popping together after I saw him doing it. He was known for a long time in the Chicago scene.

Jerry and Taurus (Street Patrol) – He was very good in Snaking, and tutting, and hitting. They were also popular for a long time in the Chicago scene. They were very good in breaking down the dance. They are the ones that started me to looking at popping more serious.

Rubber Ron and Baby Gap (tidal Wave) – They was very good in Waving and they was good in the Chicago style of hitting. I really believe Rubber Ron was the one that started that Chicago hitting style. He was part of one of the most popular street dance group in Chicago in the ‘80s.

Melvin (Venus Electronic) I would have to say he was one of the top poppers in Chicago. He loved battling, and he was good in Snaking and hitting. I was told that a guy name JD from California taught Street patrol and Venus Electronic popping. Their style of popping was so close to California.

California Kid – He danced and looked like the California poppers. His name say it all, I believe he came from California.

Mendoza – He was a good all around dancer. He pop, lock, Jack (house), break, etc. He was one of the best all around dancer in the Chicago area. He was also a very good popper, I remembered seeing him and Melvin battled at the Playground in the early ‘80s.

SpaceCapital – (Cosmic Force) I was considered a hit master, and stop and go specialist. I loved to battling, but I was more of a performer type popper.

Others Fat Jaw, Frank, California Kid, Karl, Scarecrow, Marvin, Cosmo, Shabby members from Mechanical Men’s, Venus Electronics, Pop-O-Matics, Electric Domino’s, Tidal Waves, just to name a few.

Where were the hot spots to session/battle at? How often did these things go down?

Battles were at many locations back then. Sometimes at parties and other time we would meet up at playgrounds, block parties, or abandon buildings. Battles or sessions took place very often, we danced all the time. Some of the hot spots were parties like Rainbow, Lawndale Rainbow, The Factory, Bismarck, Outside hot spots Chicago and state, State and lake, Playgrounds, and youth centers through out Chicago area.

I remembered we used to practice in our back yard and people would come in our yard to dance with us or battle against us. I also remembered we got caught by Electric Domino’s one time when we were practicing for a show and they walked in and placed their ghetto box on the floor and busted a long routine on us. It was like we practiced for hours and was completely tired and then they came in ready to battle. Kelo and I did get them back some months later.

Who was your inspiration? What did you guys do different back then to get inspiration?

In my earlier stages of dancing when I was very young it was the Soul Train show. Then in the mid ‘70s it was the older guys in the Austin Community. One group that really started me in these dances was the Muppets (Crescendo group back in the ‘70s, the guy that now host the Street dancing competition and the Hip hop street dance award event.). In the late ‘70s it was Fat jaw, Mendoza, Scarecrow, Marvin, and Shabby. In the early ‘80s from Chicago it was Kelo, Mechanical Man, Street patrol, California Poppers like Pete, Boogaloo Shrimp, Taco, Blue City Strutters, etc.

Did you train with a certain group/individual/teacher? If so who?

I would only dance with other poppers for group routines. Most of the time I didn’t practiced with other poppers. We didn’t practice like that back then. When it was time for me to practice on my moves I would always practice by my self. I can only remembered one time someone shows me something when it came to popping. Karl showed me the basic way to snake. It just wasn’t cool to teach others stuff back then, that was an unwritten rule back then in Chicago.

Can you still find inspiration from the new generation?

I get more inspiration from looking at guys that dance from within. Guys like Salah (that I met in 1998 Battle of the year), Tetris, Elsewhere, and a few others. I like seeing dancers that dance within themselves and bring something unique to the scene. Don’t get me wrong I love seeing guys doing the Electric Boogaloo style of Boogaloo. Guys like Legend, and few others are doing great. I just wish other dancers that boogaloo would add something to it and stop dancing in the EB’s spirit. If we had danced like this in the ‘80s dancers wouldn’t give you the day because we didn’t acknowledge these types of dancers.

Please tell us about any memorable battles, beefs, sessions, moves, places, etc.

One of the misconceptions about Popping is that it was not a dance that focuses on battles like the current generation. We did battle, but it was not the focus point of the dance. We were more into performing, and battles were like the backdrop of the scene. We were focus on having nice outfits, busting good routines, and stuff. The top performers were the known dancers. Battler poppers were more known in the underground scene. They had street rep, but it was very small compare to the top performer. One of the best ways back then was to out perform someone on stage. They would give you like one or two minutes to perform, and the best performer win the prize. That was the way we battled back in the ‘70s and early ‘80s. When breaking came in, it changed the popping culture some what. I noticed that people started battling more in circles. This is also when popping started focusing more on tricks and less on dancing. I really didn’t liked the new direction popping was moving in.

I did started getting into conflict or battles with other poppers. Back then most of the popular poppers or breakers had their own spots. We Cosmic Force pretty much were holding down the Lawndale Rainbow. Tidal waves and Mechanical Men’s were holding down The Factory, and others had their spots. I remembered going to the Factory one day and we all were dancing. Everybody just was popping and breaking and the Tidal Waves walked in and everybody stopped dancing. I was already on stage popping and I didn’t know what was going down because this was my first time at the Factory. They stepped on the stage and I noticed that I was the only one still dancing. I guess to them, I dissed them by not getting off the stage. So they started sending out poppers one by one, and I would go at them. After the battle Lee talked to me about how I didn’t backed down. He wanted me to join their group.

Another day at the Factory I went at Mechanical Man. We went some rounds and it was a hardcore battle. See I was like the guy that poppers heard about but never saw dancing. I started traveling to other location in like 1982. So I was finally getting out of my area and getting to represent with or against other known poppers.

I remembered we had a block party on my block and Mendoza and I was somewhat cool. The older guys wanted to see us battle against each others. Mendoza was the guy that was known as the best popper in my area. But I was like this up and coming popper. So Doza came to me and say let work together and we would split the money. So I’m was just dancing in a reserved mode against him, but I started noticing how hard he was coming at me. So I started battling him seriously, and I was ripping him so hard in popping that he started Locking and Jacking (they call this House dancing now). I won the battle and the money because the older cats say it was a popping battle and they wanted to see us go at it in popping. I still gave him half the money and I was kind of happy after this day because many guys tried to battle Mendoza and he beat so many guys that step to him. These were some of my battles with known poppers in the Chicago area. I have battled so many poppers and I won some and lost some. I used to lose a lot of battles in my early stage of popping to the point that I wasn’t scare to lose. Battles were cool at times; I used battles just to let other know I was on the scene. It was more like my introduction to what ever area traveled to. I still liked performing more then battles because I loved entertaining the crowd.

What were the dominant styles back in the 70s? How about in the 80s?

I can only remember seeing Popping in like the late 1978. So most of the popping I saw in Chicago was from 1979 to 1989. In Chicago we did the styles as one dance. So it was never a style that dominated. To us it was a dance and sub styles to the dance. Now at different times different moves became more popular. In like 1978-1979 basic hitting, glides, and twist-O-flexes were more popular. In like 1980-81 stop and go movements were more popular. In like 1982-1984 waving, tutting and snaking became very popular. In 1984-1986 doing tricks became more popular. Most of the known poppers were doing everything and were more into dancing with their popping.

Did you hear about the poppers in the bay area before it hit LA? Who were some of the dancers that you used to hear stories about? How did you view them back then? Now?

To be honest with you we didn’t hear about any poppers from other areas until we started seeing them on Television. My first time seeing someone busting this dance on Television was on the Gong Show. I saw The Mechanical Devices performed on the Gong Show in like 1975 or 1976. Then I started seeing people busting it on Soul Train Show. Then I saw the Electric Boogaloo on Soul Train popping. By this time we were already popping in the Chicago area. So my first time seeing someone from the Bay area was on the Gong Show. Then we started seeing poppers dance in Music Videos and then the Movies started coming out and most of the earlier Movies had California Poppers. The poppers from California that were known from Cleveland, Ohio were Jeffrey Daniel because of him dancing on Soul train so much. Shrimp, Taco, Blue City Strutters, Pete, pretty much all the poppers that were in productions at the time. Breakin’ and Enterin’ really were our introduction to the California scene, because before then we saw poppers dance but we didn’t know their names at all. So, most of the poppers that danced in the Breakin’ and Enterin’ production became very known in Chicago.

How were battles judged back then? Do you feel it is better judged now or before? What do you think battles should be judged on?

The only battles back then that were judged were the performing battles. The judges would pick the person or group that performed the best. The battles like they are doing now didn’t have judges. This was like underground battles that we did against dancers or groups we didn’t like or wanted to challenge. This became more popular when the breaking scene became popular. I believe popping and breaking are different type of dances. Breaking is more of a combative dance. Popping is not, to get the most out of a popper it should be more of a performing battle. I think it should be like three rounds and each round a person should get like 30 seconds. They should be able to pick the music they dance off. We need to get back to performing because the current state of popping is not helping the art form. What happened to the outfits? What happened to the showmanship? What happened to the group performances? What happened to the props?

Skill level compared to back then to now, what are the differences? Please be specific (musicality, technique, originality, crowd control, character, etc) .

I think that most of the things are the same. I believe what holding the current generation back is the originality.

Who did you want to battle back then? What about now?

I dance today only to feed the soul. I’m not into popping for nothing else. I have matured to a level in life to understand what is more important. To me it’s an honor to still be health enough to perform this dance. Everybody I wanted to battle back then, I battled, and I enjoyed my time doing it and dancing. Today my focus is on contributing to the scene. This is why I started my site back in 1996, to contribute to the popping scene. If I was more active in the popping scene today I would focus more on performing. That would be the only thing that interests me today.

What do you feel about the internet becoming a big part of networkin in poppin community?

I believe the internet helps the popping scene out a lot. It’s a cheaper way to stay in touch with other poppers. We’re able to see poppers video clips from all over the world. I really believe the internet played a major role in helping this scene.

When did you get back into the scene? why?

I started getting back in the scene around 1993. I stopped in 1990 because I had a kid; I was trying to focus on help raising my kid. I just could not continue living without popping, so I started back practicing it around the house. Around 1995 I noticed from the internet that other people were doing this dance and that is when I became more active with the current scene. I started helping on “Cardboard Only” web site, and then in 1996 I started my own web site. In 1997 I started traveling to California and other locations.

what was the down time of the scene like (late 80s early 90s) how did people react to poppin?

The popping scene in Chicago was dead around 1989. It was a few poppers still doing shows around this time. Kelo and I, and Street Patrol were like the most active poppers in Chicago doing this declined stage. I didn’t have much problem dancing because people still liked to see the dance. There were people who talked about you when you danced. Doing this time some people were quick to tell you Popping was played out. It was kind of sad seeing the scene declined. I believe popping helped a lot of guys/gals made it through the day. It helped keep some people away from other stuff. Once the scene died these people went back to doing negative things.

What do you think brought poppin back? Who is responsible?

I really believe the young generation brought it back. If I had to give credit to some of the people who helped the scene grow, I would have to give credit to Mr. Wiggles, Fable and their crew, and Flattop, Animation, Re, and Chuco. These were the poppers that were more popular and they didn’t stop dancing when the scene was dead. I was out there and I was active with the younger generation and I’m just giving credit to the ones that really helped this scene.

There are many debates on what people should be Popping to, what do you feel about the new styles of music out there? Do you think by adapting to the new generation of music, the styles themselves will evolve into something new?

I believe that each individual should be able to express themselves. It’s cool to have an understanding of what poppers dance to. I do agree that funk music was one of the main music we danced to. I believe that it’s good for the current generation to dance to the music out now. We can’t hold the scene back to the ‘70s or ‘80s. Part of letting a scene grow is adapting to the current times. We have to adapt to the current times, because that is the only way an art form stay around. Look at Jazz, or Ballet, they are constantly adapting to current times. Yes, there always going to be people who do the things the old way and I think it is good to have both. We need the ones who break the rules, because they are the trendsetter. They are the ones who bring something fresh to the scene.

What advice would you give to anyone who is interested in getting into this dance?

I would tell a person interested in learning popping to have fun and doesn’t worry about what others say about your dancing.

What do you think young dancers should do to help the scene grow as a whole? Join the mass media entertainment? Stay underground? Make money off of it? What do you hope to see from the new generation as we carry on this art form?

I believe each person have their own path they want to take in life and in dancing. It has to be something in you to go a certain path. I chosen my path of contributing to this scene because I truly want to see this scene grow and become a legit art form. We need people in many areas, and doing many things to help this art form.

Anything you would like the readers to know about you? Any other comments?

Life has many challenges in it and we as people might not know the challenges ahead of us. We will be tested in many ways in life and you just have to keep your faith and believe things will get better. I danced for the fun, and enjoyed it. I have realized that we should always try to get the most out of life because it is the greatest gift. Don’t focus so much time on thinking about getting to the destination, just enjoy the process. So enjoy the process of learning this dance and getting better in it, and in time you will become a good dancer.