The Evolutions of the Funkstyles

[Boogiewalker]

Ok, so, I have to speak on some stuff. I'm no expert, but I've been locking for about 3 or so years, and I love it, so I know some stuff. But more than anything, what I have to say has to do more with easily observable things, so here goes...

First off: Funkstyle dancing is back. It's no longer thought to be an "old school" phenomenon, but rather, much like Bboying, funkstyle dancing now has a sizeable global community of people progressing the styles and aiding their evolution, as well as preserving their roots...

But my main issue is: why is it that Locking seems to be looked at as the "red-headed step-child" of the funk dances? Everyone and their mother seems to be a popper. But only a handful of people, especially here in the United States, are "seriously" dedicated to locking. Sure, you've got your Japans, your Frances--enclaves where locking seems to be more of a larger-scale thing. But mostly, everyone is a popper and locking is just sort of, "that thing you do when you're done popping, or bboying, and you feel the need to put on a floppy hat, some baggy pants, a pair of striped socks and Chucks and go out and point at things with a stupid grin on your face."

Don't get me wrong: I'm not bagging on popping and all its various sub-styles nor am I bagging on poppers (since I consider myself one as well). But I guess what I'm interested in is not only figuring out why locking has seemingly not evolved (whereas popping has) but how can we change the situation?

First off: why locking hasn't evolved as much as popping?

several reasons: first, since it really was the first funk dance, it's also the oldest of the funk dances. Therefore it was the most exposed and probably the "most quick to reach 'played-out' status" on both an underground and mainstream level.

2nd, locking has more of an ethnocentric and specialized foundation. What do I mean?: I would consider the foundation of all styles of popping something related to mime. Mime has been around for thousands of years and in almost all cultures around the world. Locking, on the other hand, has its foundation directly and specifically in the African American dance tradition, going all the way back through the soul/Motown era to tapping and hoofing in the Vaudeville era. The principles of mime (isolations, illusional movements) are things that many people across many cultures have both discovered independently of each other and are found universally impressive due to their illusional nature. Since locking has an origin tracing back more specifically through a particular people group, its appeal and its techniques are, GENERALLY speaking, a bit more limited and not so universally and independently discoverable.

This is a hypothesis of mine. I don't really have the official studies nor the ability to back up presently, but based on what I know of the dances, those are my conclusions. HOWEVER, that reason is not my "main point" as to why locking hasn't evolved...

Third: Locking movements are very prescribed and the whole locking vocabulary is very small. Popping on the other hand has a vast, VAST array of concepts, ideas and techniques that go into it. Poppers can be poppers and still look drastically different in every aspect. Most lockers are identifiable if not for their dress and mannerism, by a basic vocabulary of movements which, when incorporated into their dance, makes their dance "locking", and not something else.

However, why do these reasons, IF THEY ARE TRUE, mean that locking is somehow "less" interesting or "less" worthy of attention/progression than its sister style, popping?

For example, consider some of the strengths of locking:

First, due to its dearth of techniques and vocabulary (compared to popping styles), Locking really allows the locker to DANCE. As Suga Pop says, "Locking really is the dance that shows if you can dance. If you bboy or pop, you can hide behind tricks. But in locking, you're naked. There's no place to go--if you can't dance, people are gonna know real quick when you're locking."

Locking forces you to really use the music to move because if you do certain moves off-beat (e.g. the lock), it's going to look really, really bad. Whereas let's say you're waving--You don't have to throw a wave on a beat. A wave can just kind of go--or it could be on beat. But as if to second the quote above: that just shows that one can hide their lack of dancing ability behind a trick or illusion.

Second, locking really focusses on the character of the dancer. If you lock without character, you are not going to be locking well. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the "dancing clown" character--look at Rei and Yuu of the Go Go Brothers. They have a straight Gangsta type character and their locking is probably the best on the planet right now. But basically, the best lockers have always had eye-catching character when they danced. It was never just about moves--locking is a dance that has character acting and entertaining built into it! Locking makes you be a character.

Third, locking is explosive! Part of the reason that locking was so different looking was that you saw people doing these explosive, out-there movements (dives, splits, gymnastics, kicks, claps, points, locking into frozen positions, butt drops, etc.). It was a big dance--not a little weenie "I'm lame and I'm lockin'" dance. The best lockers today have explosive style in addition to technique and character. Even smaller moves can be explosive if you put enough energy into them in the right way...

But in terms of answering the main question of "why hasn't locking evolved at the same rate as popping?", these strengths are also part of the double-edged sword of the answer: Locking really requires you to dance, really demands character and is explosive. If people don't have those things, then that might be why locking hasn't blown up--it demands "too much" of people...

However, I'm not sure myself if that's the best reason, though I believe it is a part of the answer. I think another large part is that people have largely become ignorant of locking for several reasons.

Ignorance of locking is probably the foremost cause of the lack of large-scale progression.

First, the media confusion of "Breakdancing" began the obscuring of locking. This obscuring continued locking's being eclipsed by bboying and popping due to their also explosive and mind-bending natures. Lastly, the progressive de-funkifying of contemporary music probably is one of the last nails that almost were hammered down onto Locking's coffin.

I believe locking, more than bboying, is probably the biggest victim of the media "Breakdance" muddle. Chief evidence: there were two entire movies made in the 80's called "Breakin'" that had more locking than anything in them (due to OG Locker Shabbadoo's starring role in the movies...) "Breakin'" should have been called "Lockin' & Poppin'" in my opinion because that's really the majority of what you see in the movie besides the occasional shitty six step by one of the main actors.

When Bboying started to make its comeback in the 90's, it was quickly associated with Breakin' and the other Bboy movies (which did feature straight Bboying, i.e. Wild Style, Beat Street, Krush Groove, etc.). Therefore the bboying foundation got more exposure, and lockin' just got more muddled up.

Last, the progressive de-funkifying of contemporary music has led to locking's being considered "old school" or out-of-date. Locking had a soundtrack of straight soul and funk, maybe even involving some electro-funk in the early 80's. But generally, once urban and black music started to move away from live funk in the mid-80's and then away from funk samples in hip hop records in the mid 90's, locking becomes viewed as "old school" because its soundtrack is no longer current, but "retro". Locking is no longer "cool", but rather that retro clown-dance done to your Uncle Joe's old record collection.

So, how do we combat the lack of progression and innovation in locking?:

First, through knowledge. If the knowledge of the dance is preserved and passed on, then it will not be lost, but it will also have the ability to progress. After all, innovation of ANYTHING is only possible once you've got an established foundation, plan or technique, whether you're talking Stop-n-Go's or Staple guns. If more people learn how to lock, then more opportunities for innovation and progress exist.

Also, this has to be education aimed at eventual progress, and not just "here's the 'correct' way to lock, JUST LIKE the OG Lockers did it!" That kind of education KILLS progress. Trust me.

Second, lockers have to show what they can do in terms of showcasing the strengths of their dance. Lockers have to be able to show their musicality and dance ability; they have to show their character; they have to be as explosive as they can within the style. This will attract more people and in turn, keep evolving the dance. You don't want to dance the same way every time, rigth? Evolve!

Third, we must find a way to both a.) adapt the locker style to a contemporary style and b.) we must bring the funk back into the contemporary urban music scene. Now, I know about adaptation of locking style. That's the easy part. You don't have to wear knickers, striped socks and shirt, crossed suspenders, a cumberbund, apple cap and marshmellows to be a locker. Practice locking in "hip hop" clothes. Practice locking in suits. Practice in casual clothes. Practice it in your freakin' pajamas if you want!!! Or, take elements of the old school style and mix it with new items. For instance, I really enjoy wearing knickers to lock. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to be in full locker costume whenever I'm locking.

And with bringing the funk back--well, we need talented musicians and producers to figure that one out. Locking funk is a little bit different than alot of popping funk, but you can still usually make one work for the other. But still, lets have a neo-funk era!!! Let's get music that actually fits the style of locking. Or we can adapt to what we have--which also provides its own challenges, but is another way to bring it back. Maybe instead of "lean wit it, rock wit it", we could have "lean wit it, LOCK wit it" :P .

At any rate, I'm heartened to see that the evolution of locking seems to be on an upswing, what with all the global talent, and attention at jams and OG's coming out to teach. But at any rate, it's still a really small group of people. But it's a nice challenge for us to try and take it somewhere new.

[Kaistar]

baaaamp

[scramblelock]

good post you should put this on the wiggles forum in the locking section

i totally agree that locking is the slowest evolving of the street dances
and there are many other factors that have caused this (lack of unification among the OGs, many of the OGs going overseas to teach, people not taking locking seriously etc)

but what can we do to keep locking moving forward?????
practice practice practice!
learn from as many OGs and other experienced lockers as you can and try to piece things together

we gotta act as ambassadors to those who are unaware of the history behind locking and show them that its not a clown dance but a respectable art form just as much as popping or bboying

[Kaistar]

Scramble: As you said, but what I really hate about this dance is the fact that so many students willingly take up the same blinders as their teachers... it's really sad... so even the students themselves blind themselves to other methods and approaches towards locking because "it's not the right way".

[Boogiewalker]

For real... I couldn't agree with both of you guys more...

I think practicing is a key component. I think that partly one reason why locking is so "ignored" is that there are few people really doing it in a way that makes it look appealing because most people are content to just "up-lock-point-point-clap-scooby-doo-lock-make-a-stupid-face-at-the-crowd/judges." Then they do those moves badly. No wonder locking gets dismissed as a "clown dance" that bboys do when they're tired of breaking...

but yes, the blinders of the OGs seems to be another big concern. I think a good way to overcome this is to train with as many people as you can. Take what they have to offer and adapt it to your own style (but don't tell one OG that you're studying with another because then they're will be hell to pay!!! :twisted: :P

Anyway, just kidding. But in a way, I'm not...

Also, I think it's important for people to cypher alot and work on locking routines. Those are important tools for developing locking skills.

cheers guys.

peas,

BW
CSLA Funkstyles

[Man Like Griff]

Brilliant post Boogiewalker and a top thread.

for me, locking is the funkstyle dance, because unlike popping (and assoc), if youre dancing 2 music with no funk, you have no style. the right music brings out the right feel, and the right feel is half the battle.

my position, is one of isolation. seemingly being the only funkin person around the west of the UK, it is hard to develop concepts beyond the basics due to a lack of people to bounce ideas off. but i do my best! and keep representing the dance at as many places as the music sees fit - cos after all - some one has to keep it going!

going to events like Juste Debout and being amongst the hundreds makes it feel like being back with the family! :lol:

props 2 all you lot

[pacificYO]

whats up...i'm somewhat new to this dance...i don't want to consider myself a "Locker" just yet [i've been teaching myself, and getting some help from out-of-country-ers]...i'll be traveling out of town this summer to learn from people who can provide me foundation and insight to the dance. i'm a bboy who has a wide perspective of the evolution of dance in general.


...but my thoughts on the evolution of locking moves:
popping is dope, don't get me wrong...but what i like about locking is there are so many rules you gotta follow in terms of moves. now, don't get me wrong...i HATE being given rules to follow...but in life, that's exactly what you are given. it's the true artist who can take those rules and bend them to work in his or her favor to create something new and unique.
[p.s. i'm from san diego...most of the bboys here focus on foundation, and you'd be surprised how many different ways you can do a 6-step]

peace from San Diego
pacificYO

[hope to see you guys at freestyle session this august!]

[Boogiewalker]

Welcome to the boards, PacificYO...

If you're from SD, you should look up my boy John Yumol, aka Chimichanga. He's part of the CSLA Lockin' Crew, and he's pretty dope. He lives in Vista? (or maybe closer to SD... I don't remember...) But y'all should get down... Find him on Myspace if you got it...

Anyway, I want to be clear about something:

There ARE rules in ANY dance, any music style, any ARTFORM, period. People who say there aren't are either misinformed or are lying. HOWEVER, just because a dance has "rules" doesn't mean that those rules aren't breakable.... But in order to break a rule, you first have to understand WHAT the rules are...

Like you said about the SD bboys always stressing foundation: if you're teaching ANY dance and claiming to teach a FOUNDATION-- guess what?! You're implying order and RULES. However, what is brilliant about street dancing is that people manipulate those rules or add to them or, as I said, break them, and that leads to: (duh duh DAH!) INNOVATION.

Everyone talks about the words "rules" and "order" like they're four-letter words... Let's stop kidding ourselves: if you like progression, innovation, new concepts, and stuff you haven't seen before, well, you're presupposing that there is a "way" things are "supposed to be" (i.e. rules) and that things can be changed or added to those ways...

Foundations are necessary for beautiful, creative buildings to be built. You can construct your own house anyway you want, BUT I guarantee that you're going to be following the basic concepts of geometry and algebra when you and the architect draw up the blue prints...

Anyway, you all know my thoughts on this subject... I'll stop ranting now :P

Hope to get down with you soon!

peas,

Boogiewalker
CSLA FUNkstyles

[scramblelock]

id like to revive this discussion with a question and a comment

Question: Why is locking so much more advanced in areas such as France, Asia (Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc) and yet over here in North America where all the OGs are, where locking originated, not so much....
Someone said to me once "the USA already had its high time" but I dont fully accept that, there's a lot of people getting into it, but not as many taking it seriously

Comment: Could it be because of people's priorities here in how they view dancing that locking is not as advanced as it could be? I mean Hiphop dancing is the thing everyone wants to do now or at least its the way young people are being introduced to "urban dances". They see that dancers/choreographers who have worked for celebrities as having high credibility and flock to their workshops, yet when it comes to having OGs come in to teach, its usually a lot more difficult to even get 20 people to a class. Especially with the emergence of dance shows like "so you think you can dance" and "Americas best dance crew" people are seeing more integration of funk styles, which is a good thing, but it still seems that now people are wanting to learn locking so they can put it into their hiphop routine to add credibility to what they do and say they can do all dances and dont really take it seriously in a way as if you are studying a martial art. It's more of an instant gratification approach where once the routine is taught, that's cool then move on to something else....people arent taking it to that higher level.

To contrast this, when I hear of how big locking is in Asia and from what Ive been told, dancers do take studying a dance like locking very seriously. It's almost as if original streetdances: locking, popping, breaking are respected a lot more than commercial hiphop dancing and the proof is there when you see 100 crews sign up for a locking 2on2 in some events, or see big events (UK champs, FSS, boty) broadcasted on TV.

It's a serious issue I see because all around the world locking is getting more and more popular bit it still seems here in North America, people are uneducated and misunderstood about what the dance is all about.

I mentioned before how its important to practice practice practice but to add to it I think if people want to evolve the dance they have to approach it in a way as if they are studying a martial art or a field of science, going out, experimenting, learning from elders asking questions and pushing your limits to what you can do with the dance. It's a longer more difficult vocation but the truth is many of us are the next generation and the dance needs to be passed down correctly for future generations.

[buddha stretch]

W'sup Scram...here's My 2-cents....for One...locking In Asia,primarily Japan Was Being Taught In Studio's For Years,as A Primary Street Dance....long Before Teaching Street Dance Became A Staple In North America....two...the "classification",of Styles Has Been A Big Thing In Asia,for A While...at One Time...only *lockers* Locked,...*poppers* Popped..etc....with The Advent Of Hiphop,those Genre's Opened Up,& Many People Started To Want To Learn Different Styles...my Personal Take Is That Locking Is Far Advanced,from What It Was In The 70's...it's The Dancers Who Are Lagging Behind!there Are Far More Combinations In Locking Now,than I've Seen Previous In All My Studies Of The Dance....but I Don't *see* Enough Dancers Focused On This Aspect...imo!as Far As The Quote *original Street Dances* Being More Respected...it's Primarily Due To Hiphop,bcuz That Brought The Exposure To Street Dance As A Whole...i Think Here In North America The Primary Problem With Locking Is Too Much Focus On Moves,& Not Enough On The *movement*...dancers See Huge *power* Moves On Youtube,but Don't Get The "dance" Aspect.....which Is Why So Many *lockers* In North America Are Offbeat,90% Of The Time!the Focus,imo,should Be On The Dances/moves That Make Up The Style Called Locking,& The Different Combinations That Can Be Had When You Combine Your Own Take,on These Moves!....peace

[scramblelock]

quick reply and good post thanks buddha, your last sentance is a powerful one!

what does everyone else think?

[DpauseItKMF]

cool post!

for me, locking is like...i dunno...
its like a drug for me, i throw on some james brown, lock it up and forget about time...

just takes me to another zone...always loved it...

but im not anything of a pioneer, so i apologize...= [

umm...on a brighter note there will be the locking workshop in las vegas!

[lanier2]

Great post brotha. Its kinda hard to sit here and try to answer that on so ill leave it alone. I can only speak on Compton/Watts were the shit started. From what I see here where I live, Locking doesnt exist anymore. There's not too many poplockers here either. Most of everyone here is krumping and doin some other bullshit. Im startin to see hood niggas with Mohawks and shit lol!!! Im like what happened to tha braids ma nigg?? Things have definitely changed from 1970 to 2008. You definitely wont find anyone that can Lock over here. If you do its probably a triple OG. Over here we either poplockin or Krumpin thats it. Locking is obsolete in most urban areas here in LA. Lookin at Youtube, ive seen some bad ass Lockers though! JRock even shocked me with some of the shit he was playin around with. I still got love for all the Lockers out there puttin it down. What up Scramb! Holla atcha boy!!

[kaib0rg]

here's a way to move locking forward:

STOP RELYING SO MUCH ON WHAT THE OG'S DID.


the lock. the scooby doo. the scooby walk. the scoop-hop-kick. the list goes on forever but realistically--it's still a list of "moves" that have been done before. so many lockers think this is "the way" to lock. as if, if you're not doing these moves that have been layed out, you're not locking "the right way."

it's time to step out of the boundaries of what has *been done.* it's time to drop the stupid grin and start making up new characters and new movements.

[scramblelock]

its important to move forward that is true

but there is something these OGs had when they were dancing, this feeling to what they were doing....an energy that oozed out of them, that many are lacking today....

its important to keep that link with the OGs because there is something beyond the moves that they can share with us...and we are lucky that they are still around...but as stretch said, we need to be able to apply our own take on it too, and that requires taking some risks.....basically having yourself planted in both worlds (new school and old school) and finding a way to link the two

[wajero2007]

wow, the most informative thread in a while

thx

[beee]

ok...i haven't read every single response, so i don't know if this has been addressed yet....so apoligies ahead of time if this is a broken record....also FURTHER apologize for being all over the place...my mind tends to work like that.....also keep in mind that these are all my opinions for the sake of discussion and growing as a dancer in this artform....

now we all agree that in order to progress we need a solid foundation....i've trained with a few different older lockers and there doesn't seem to be a solid foundation....i mean, we look at all the original campbellockers' footage, but people are shown something different by others that claimed to be taught by the same people IN the performances....this maybe opening pandora's box, but could it be that somewhere between then and now, certain moves evolved? i'm not really talking about being lost in translation somewhere....

in my personal observation, i noticed that there were a few styles of locking; from the original, to valley style, to vegas style...etc......and i see the differences but at the same time each difference can pretty much trace their origins back 2 one or a few different memebers of the original campbellockers...which might actually lead me to a point--looking at the originals, each member had their own personal foundation...since it was a brand new dance, and an improvisational (freestyle) one at that, these moves were made up on the spot...so each person was creating their own personal foundations WHILE they were dancing....could it b that learning from, say, flukey luke would be different than learning from greg? or maybe through their (the originals) time together, did they create the standard movements, which may be a slight variation of what they had done when they had started, simply for uniformity? i'm not assuming anything, but simply searching for answers....

IN MY OPINION, one of our biggest flaws is there's TOO MUCH of "you're doing it wrong" and not enough of "THIS is how you do it!"

hope i made a post worth the time i've spent typin it....

[beee]

wow...seconds after pressing "submit reply" another thing jumped in my head--in my opinion, being that this was an improvisational dance, the originals were pretty much reflecting the time, environment, feel and even personal experiences OF THAT ERA......a possible reason why many don't understand this dance is that it's NOT that era anymore....many newer lockers weren't even BORN when this dance was created....

looking back at old SOUL TRAIN episodes, you can see the funk in the movements of random people, NOT just the lockers....is it because THAT was the era of funk and it just naturally oozed out of people? IN MY OPINION, it's THIS feeling that is missing from the newer dancers...NOT the movements!!! all movements aside, how exactly DO you explain and teach a feeling? ESPECIALLY to someone who's not only from that specific time, but NOT EVEN from this CULTURE....a person can try transforming their whole life to live in the 60s and 70s....but is that really necessary?!?!

is there such a thing as a "new millenium funk?" or should we just try 2 figure out that feeling the originals had even though not everybody lived their experiences? i'm not here hinting that "this is only an old folks dance" or "only people from the projects can do this dance properly"...but what i'm asking is should we take into consideration the culture and time period when learning this dance? and if so, HOW?

ok....i think i'm done....

[scramblelock]

that idea of having your dance being influenced by the time/environment/feel is something that OG skeet and Gemini have discussed about, hopefully they can get on here and add to it too, but that is a very inportant thing, and part of the reason why most people kind of get weirded out when they think of locking....because they dont want some goofy striped shirt funny hat person coming in to teach a clown dance....yet they are surprised to hear why striped shirts/knickers were really worn...or the idea of brother/sisterhood

as to learning from OGs....i think it is important to learn from as many different lockers as you can, because everyone has their own approach to it and different feelings/movements

its like once you let the funk inside you it twists within...the longer you let it stay inside, the more it twists around!

[beee]

great mark...u made sheit sound like a porn!!!

so would the end product b the money shot?

[kaib0rg]

i completely agree there is something BEYOND the moves that the OG's and a handful of lockers do. that's what people should be focused on when locking, not "i roll my wrist, then i point from my chest, then i kick my leg up at a 122 degree angle" etc.

the essence/energy behind locking is key, imo, not the specific movements that the original lockers did.

[Falsify]

My opinion is that you haven't seen an advancement of locking because you haven't seen an advancement of locking music.

Popping fits mainstream music, as well as underground club beats. This type of music is constantly being pushed forward, produced whatever. The evolution of 'popping' beats have come a lot farther , whereas lockers are still using the same music and looking at overused beats for inspiration and ideas.

[scramblelock]

there's a lot of hidden funk out there....especially 80s funk....that music is serious!!!!
there is also a whole lot of funk being produced today, just takes a bit of searching

www.wefunkradio.com or start hanging out with some funk DJs....it will change your perspective on music!!!!!

[Falsify]

I agree with you there is a lot out there, but it's no where near the amount of beats etc you can find that suit other styles. Of course some would argue no type of music suits any one particular style...

[Boogiewalker]

YAY! A DRAMA-FREE, INTELLIGENT, PRODUCTIVE CHAT THREAD!!! wOOt!

I agree with both Scram and Falsify: there is still good funky music being made. As one of my crewmates pointed out: deep, funky house music tends to be the modern equivalent to funk nowadays. People lock to it, house to it, pop to it, groove to it, break to it... So, perhaps funky and deep house is a partial answer...

I think the whole point about a "by-gone era" is important. Funk was a type of music made by Black Americans during a time of extreme racial tension and oppression. The music was a release but it was also a form of solidarity, of "brother and sisterhood" as Scram put it.

I think what's missing from our cultural context right now is that sense of solidarity in the face of an "outside" force...

However, I think a lot of house music provides that kind of positivity, that feeling of soulful community... Perhaps that's why it seems that all these different dance styles can thrive in a house club environment...

I think nouveau funk is all good, but it doesn't really help us progress to try and re-create something. A good replica, as good as it is, is still a replica. But you can find ways to apply the spirit of something old with something relatively new (or, at least, still currently widely popular...)

Now, don't get me wrong: I love funk music. I have for the longest time. Also, I grew up listening to 80's soul-groove (I was baby-sat by a black woman from the time I was an infant until I was about 10... so you know what she was listening to in her car while she drove us from school to McDonald's and then, to the playground.) :)

One track I've been tripping out on recently is the cover of "You and I" by Delegation, remixed by the Supermen Lovers. The video clip features P-Lock, Jimmy Soul, Willow and Jeremy (it's kind of a tribute to the whole Toni Basil-choreographed "Lockers in Swan Lake" clip)... But this track is a perfect example of what I mean by how house or electronic music helps to put the "feel" of the "funk" into a more updated context...

enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5rYmrn6cwQ

[Boogiewalker]

now we all agree that in order to progress we need a solid foundation....i've trained with a few different older lockers and there doesn't seem to be a solid foundation....i mean, we look at all the original campbellockers' footage, but people are shown something different by others that claimed to be taught by the same people IN the performances....this maybe opening pandora's box, but could it be that somewhere between then and now, certain moves evolved? i'm not really talking about being lost in translation somewhere....

I agree; moves do evolve. People do teach things differently sometimes... BUT...

in my personal observation, i noticed that there were a few styles of locking; from the original, to valley style, to vegas style...etc......and i see the differences but at the same time each difference can pretty much trace their origins back 2 one or a few different memebers of the original campbellockers...which might actually lead me to a point--looking at the originals, each member had their own personal foundation...since it was a brand new dance, and an improvisational (freestyle) one at that, these moves were made up on the spot...so each person was creating their own personal foundations WHILE they were dancing....could it b that learning from, say, flukey luke would be different than learning from greg? or maybe through their (the originals) time together, did they create the standard movements, which may be a slight variation of what they had done when they had started, simply for uniformity? i'm not assuming anything, but simply searching for answers....

I think this is a confusion of terminology, B.: "Foundation" and "Style" are two different things. For example, you, me, Richie Rich, Gemini, Suga Pop, Scramblelock, Sunny D-Lock, Jimini, Hilty & Bosch and the Go Go Brothers all have our own way of doing the "Stop & Go". However, I could get all of us in a line and call out the "Stop & Go" and, regardless of our personal style of doing it, we would all start doing a similar-looking step and would probably do it in sync.

Foundation = Each of us know a basic form of the Stop & Go;

Personal Style = each of us do it slightly different (different angles, different body movements in different places, slightly different timing, etc.)

IN MY OPINION, one of our biggest flaws is there's TOO MUCH of "you're doing it wrong" and not enough of "THIS is how you do it!"

I agree, but what I think the thing people have to realize is: it's OK to teach someone A WAY to do a move (teach a FOUNDATION), yet realize that there are different lockers, different schools of thought within locking and that someone else might teach or do that move in a slightly different way.

I think one of the biggest problem we're seeing right now in the street dance community at large is: People are confusing PERSONAL STYLE with FOUNDATION-- that's what restricts people's dancing.

"Oh, you have to look exactly like Shabadoo or else you're not locking!!"
"But I don't like Shabadoo; I wanna look like Tony Go Go (or Don, or Greg, or Penguin... or Richie Rich, or Rei, or Khan, or Gemini...)"
"Oh, but THAT'S NOT LOCKIN'!!!" <== right there is the destroyer.

Now yes, the ironic thing about locking is that a foundation emerged FROM a personal style. Don's original "lock" was simply a stylistic thing he did in his dance. However, once other dancers learned it and used it to do routines, it became a "move", part of a vocabulary. This is kind of like when all the cavemen got together and decided to call the hot, burning thing that devours wood, gives warmth and cooks meat, "F-I-R-E"-- originally, it was probably just one guy who said the random, arbitrary sounds, but soon everyone else used that word to describe the thing. It became an actual word with meaning...

You and I both know that even if someone from California says "F-EYE-AR" and a person from rural Arkansas says "FAAHR" we still mean the hot, burning thing that devours wood, gives warmth and cooks meat. Only intolerant gits tryto correct someone's ACCENT--at least, nowadays...

I think we just need more people teaching locking that are sensitive to the different stylistic "accents" in locking and encourage innovation while educating about the feel and the foundation of moves...

hope i made a post worth the time i've spent typin it....

I can most certainly assure you that you did. Good job!

peas,

Boogiewalker

[beee]

itz super late/early so i may be a bit kahkah on what i'm about to type....so, as always, apologies....

i TOTALLY understand what you're talkin bout boogie, but here's something to think about....

does doing certain movements (ie: the lock) on specific parts of the music classify as style or foundation?!....

of course, being on beat is ESSENTIAL to ANY street dance...this is not opinion but a FACT....(i HOPE nobody argues this....haha) but what part of the beat is the "default setting?"....easier ANSWERED than actually followed.....if u get my meaning....people know the movements, some even have the "feel"....but another IMPORTANT element, in my opinion, of course, is ACTUALLY KNOWING HOW TO DANCE......how can somebody say they're dancin when the beat is here, and THEY'RE all over the place....

here's another thing...

i could be totally wrong here, but i've noticed that there r a couple different ways to do stop n' go's.....both have simlar movements, but they hit the beat at different PARTS of the movement....you mentioned different people doin stop n go's 2gether with different styles....but if these different people have different FOUNDATIONS of doing this movement, someone if not everybody will get thrown off cause of the different accents in movement AND beat....happened to me...then again....i STILL consider myself a beginner....so this could b all in my head....wuteva...it's almost 4 in the morning.....

[buddha stretch]

itz super late/early so i may be a bit kahkah on what i'm about to type....so, as always, apologies....

i TOTALLY understand what you're talkin bout boogie, but here's something to think about....

does doing certain movements (ie: the lock) on specific parts of the music classify as style or foundation?!....

of course, being on beat is ESSENTIAL to ANY street dance...this is not opinion but a FACT....(i HOPE nobody argues this....haha) but what part of the beat is the "default setting?"....easier ANSWERED than actually followed.....if u get my meaning....people know the movements, some even have the "feel"....but another IMPORTANT element, in my opinion, of course, is ACTUALLY KNOWING HOW TO DANCE......how can somebody say they're dancin when the beat is here, and THEY'RE all over the place....

IMO...THE *DEFAULT* SETTING...IS THE 2,& THE 4....IN ALL OF CONTEMPORARY MUSIC...PROBLEMS ARISE FROM FOLKS NOT BEING ABLE TO FOLLOW THIS BASIC RHYTHM

here's another thing...

i could be totally wrong here, but i've noticed that there r a couple different ways to do stop n' go's.....both have simlar movements, but they hit the beat at different PARTS of the movement....you mentioned different people doin stop n go's 2gether with different styles....but if these different people have different FOUNDATIONS of doing this movement, someone if not everybody will get thrown off cause of the different accents in movement AND beat....happened to me...then again....i STILL consider myself a beginner....so this could b all in my head....wuteva...it's almost 4 in the morning.....


I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE DO THE *QUICKIE*,& NOT HIT THE 2,& 4...UNLESS THEIR OFFBEAT.....MAYBE I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING HERE..PLEASE ELABORATE

"Oh, you have to look exactly like Shabadoo or else you're not locking!!"
"But I don't like Shabadoo; I wanna look like Tony Go Go (or Don, or Greg, or Penguin... or Richie Rich, or Rei, or Khan, or Gemini...)"
"Oh, but THAT'S NOT LOCKIN'!!!" <== right there is the destroyer.

WHAT'S REALLY BAD ABOUT THIS STATEMENT IS...NONE OF THE LOCKERS DANCED ALIKE!SO HOW COULD IT *NOT* BE LOCKIN...CANCEROUS!

I think we just need more people teaching locking that are sensitive to the different stylistic "accents" in locking and encourage innovation while educating about the feel and the foundation of moves...

AGREED WHOLEHEARTEDLY....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7A2lILPMI

[kaib0rg]

"Oh, you have to look exactly like Shabadoo or else you're not locking!!"
"But I don't like Shabadoo; I wanna look like Tony Go Go (or Don, or Greg, or Penguin... or Richie Rich, or Rei, or Khan, or Gemini...)"
"Oh, but THAT'S NOT LOCKIN'!!!" <== right there is the destroyer.


i disagree.

"But I don't like Shabadoo; I wanna look like Tony Go Go (or Don, or Greg, or Penguin... or Richie Rich, or Rei, or Khan, or Gemini...)" <--- i think THIS is the destroyer.

i think the answer is simple as to why locking isnt evolving and the answer is in that quote alone. too many people want to look like someone else, someone that locked 20-30 years ago. it's no wonder, when you have people immitating the same movements from people doing the dance 2-3 decades ago, that it's not evolving.

[Boogiewalker]

Right, right... I'm sorry, should've added "I wanna look like myself"... My point was the sentiment of someone not recognizing what someone thinks about someone's dance style NOT being locking and the act of bringing them down/checking them is what kills progression...

I think the thing you have to realize if you're learning a style (any style) is that, when you start (as in, you're a beginner), you HAVE TO look like someone because, besides immitating someone in order to learn the basic movement, you have NO point of reference.

It's like language. I grew up in Texas, so I would be more accustomed to pronouncing the word "fire" as "FAAHR" and not "F-EYE-ER" or "F-EYE-AH" as in other parts of the country. Why? Because that is how I learned to first say the word because that's how the people who taught me how to speak English said the word...

Let's say I became an actor, though. I have to learn different English dialects and accents in order to be able to play different roles for movies or plays. Well, then I'm going to be trying to say "fire" in a lot of different other ways, listening to other people, expanding my mouth and facial muscles to be able to say it differently, standing in front of a mirror watching myself make those motions of saying the word differently, etc.

Now, if someone came along and heard me saying the word "fire" in another way besides "FAAHR" and corrected me on my pronunciation, I would probably be thinking, "this guy is some kind of a language nazi! I need to be able to say the word differently so I can be the best actor I can be!"

Now, by virtue of me being exposed to all these different ways of speaking, perhaps my own individual accent will evolve and change, so I wouldn't sound so "Texan"... Maybe I move to LA and pick up a San Fernando Valley accent and talk like a surfer... Maybe I'm a natural language mimic and my accent changes around whoever I'm around... Maybe I'm like Salvador Dali and I intentionally make up my own way of speaking English for shits and giggles...

The bottom line is: as long as I tell you, "Don't get to close to the FIRE!" and you don't get burned, I successfully communicated to you in English, REGARDLESS of what my accent was...

Same thing with locking:

I agree with Buddha Stretch: regardless of how "on beat" someone's dancing is or isn't, certain moves have a certain rhythm. If someone is doing the move, but not hitting the beat, I would say that the problem isn't with the move they're doing, but how they're moving their body to the beat of the song...

It's weird for me, perhaps because I grew up in a musical household with music ALL around me from an early age, but I guess there really ARE people who have trouble moving to a steady beat. For me, finding a beat is as natural as taking a breath. But some folks really have to cultivate that ability...

now, if they're intentionally starting it on a different beat and executing the move INTENTIONALLY in a different way (maybe they've got a breakdown or drum solo or part of the song where the rhythm drops out completely and they're trying to freak little noises or change the feel of the move (slow motion, quick speed changes, etc. etc.)-- that's different. That's like me manipulating my language intentionally for some reason (to be funny, to confuse someone, or just because I want to...))

But, like I said, in order for someone to intentionally manipulate or "break" a rule, that presupposes THAT THERE IS A RULE. There IS a way of doing it.

It once again leads back to what I said:

Lockers need to try and be more open to recognizing and cultivating diversity of approaches to the WAY of locking, and not get so stuck in confusing a PERSONAL STYLE (of a particular locker/teacher/mentor/idol) as THE ONLY WAY to do a particular move...

peas,

BW

[Boogiewalker]

I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE DO THE *QUICKIE*,& NOT HIT THE 2,& 4...UNLESS THEIR OFFBEAT.....MAYBE I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING HERE..PLEASE ELABORATE

"Oh, you have to look exactly like Shabadoo or else you're not locking!!"
"But I don't like Shabadoo; I wanna look like Tony Go Go (or Don, or Greg, or Penguin... or Richie Rich, or Rei, or Khan, or Gemini...)"
"Oh, but THAT'S NOT LOCKIN'!!!" <== right there is the destroyer.

WHAT'S REALLY BAD ABOUT THIS STATEMENT IS...NONE OF THE LOCKERS DANCED ALIKE!SO HOW COULD IT *NOT* BE LOCKIN...CANCEROUS!

I think we just need more people teaching locking that are sensitive to the different stylistic "accents" in locking and encourage innovation while educating about the feel and the foundation of moves...

AGREED WHOLEHEARTEDLY....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7A2lILPMI


Yo, Stretch, that's a fresh clip! You gave me some ideas in that one! Thanks!!!

peas,

BW

[kaib0rg]

Right, right... I'm sorry, should've added "I wanna look like myself"... My point was the sentiment of someone not recognizing what someone thinks about someone's dance style NOT being locking and the act of bringing them down/checking them is what kills progression...

I think the thing you have to realize if you're learning a style (any style) is that, when you start (as in, you're a beginner), you HAVE TO look like someone because, besides immitating someone in order to learn the basic movement, you have NO point of reference.

peas,

BW

yeah i agree with that. i kidna figured that's what you meant, just wanted to make sure. and yes i agree that with any style, you must initially look like someone else first. very astute observation.

[scramblelock]

so let's get back to the issue at hand....
how can we advance the locking scenes here in North America?

Here are some things I find are working well in Montreal:
-Monthly locking drop ins...open practice spots for lockers and people interested in learning locking
-Weekly club spots...just a place for people to meet and get down in a club setting (a big difference from studio dancing)
-Mini locking teaching tours
-encouraging newer lockers to start travelling


any other suggestions?
what about on the larger scale?

[beee]

yo, boogie....

you talk funny. smell my faahhrrt.

[buddha stretch]

so let's get back to the issue at hand....
how can we advance the locking scenes here in North America?

Here are some things I find are working well in Montreal:
-Monthly locking drop ins...open practice spots for lockers and people interested in learning locking
-Weekly club spots...just a place for people to meet and get down in a club setting (a big difference from studio dancing)
-Mini locking teaching tours
-encouraging newer lockers to start travelling


any other suggestions?
what about on the larger scale?
MY SUGGESTION IS THE CONSTANT EXCHANGE OF INFO....VIA DIFFERING MEDIUMS..FOLKS NEED MUSIC?SET UP A MUSIC PAGE,WHERE FOLKS DROP/ADD MUSIC TO IT...SO THAT IT GROWS CONSTANTLY!VIDEO EXCHANGE-ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH...SOMEONE PICK A SONG,& PUT UP A PRACTICE CLIP,THEN EVERYONE ELSE FOLLOWS SUIT...TO THE SAME SONG!THAT WAY YOU GET DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF THE SAME MUSIC!...& GROWTH IN MOVEMENT...PEACE

[beee]

MY SUGGESTION IS THE CONSTANT EXCHANGE OF INFO....VIA DIFFERING MEDIUMS..FOLKS NEED MUSIC?SET UP A MUSIC PAGE,WHERE FOLKS DROP/ADD MUSIC TO IT...SO THAT IT GROWS CONSTANTLY!VIDEO EXCHANGE-ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH...SOMEONE PICK A SONG,& PUT UP A PRACTICE CLIP,THEN EVERYONE ELSE FOLLOWS SUIT...TO THE SAME SONG!THAT WAY YOU GET DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF THE SAME MUSIC!...& GROWTH IN MOVEMENT...PEACE

GREAT idea!!!

once i find a video camera....i'd love 2 bang one out!!! anybody wanna start building?!...

lez do this!!!!!!!


one request:

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism!!!!!! we have ENOUGH people telling us we're doin shiet wrong....how bout telling us WHY it's wrong!!!! now is our chance 2 advance the dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Boogiewalker]

or instead of telling us it's "wrong", why not say that it's good for what it is, but maybe they could consider doing x,y and z to make it even better?

I'm down... as soon as I get my shit off of my camcorder, I'll post something... stay tuned...

Beee, you gonna go to the Ford Theatre tomorrow? Hip Hop workshop from like 7:00pm until 9:00pm... Ima BEEEE there (get it?!)

peas,

BW

[beee]

Beee, you gonna go to the Ford Theatre tomorrow? Hip Hop workshop from like 7:00pm until 9:00pm... Ima BEEEE there (get it?!)


didn't know anyfin bout this.....and no..i DON'T get it...

[itsmekarlo]

hey everyone,

i just read through this whole thing and wow. lots of incredible information, but anway...

For sometime now it has been bothering me that the North American (specifically US) lockers are much behind the international scene. Unfortunately, it is something which can't be helped. All the factors listed throughout the thread really stop locking here from advancing, however there are some good things about North American lockers which i feel people forget. kaistar and i were discussing this and what he said made a lot of sense.

First off, by looking at us comparatively with other countries or regions I honestly feel we have the most diverse selection in locking styles, even though we have SO MANY fewer lockers than Japan, or France or any other place. I think this comes down to the "problem" of the ogs.

It is true that there isn't a whole lot of unification amongst the ogs, BUT being that we have so many more than other countries, different types of information gets out there, whether unified or not. In places like Japan there really is very few references other than Tony GoGo or a travelling Og or teacher. What i'm trying to get at here is that as a whole i DO feel like North America is advanced on its ideologies, originality, concepts , and variety of character. I mean really, think of the handful of lockers which you deem North America's "best". None of them really resemble the other. The problem lies in execution of this, and thats where i feel the issue falls under the individuals will to learn the history, and to practice it.

also, i believe that in order for North America to really catch up individuals need to start taking the dance to a level of a job. Thats what other countries have done, and i believe thats what needs to be done here. That is how you break it into the mainstream again, and relight the fire (no pun intended) of locking. Unfortunately, there really isn't much job security in this, which is what deters most people. However, someone needs to take a risk a devout themselves too it. I know this is a random analogy, but i believe that this whole locking thing is a lot like extreme sports, specifically skateboarding. It was once ridiculously underground until individuals stepped up and advanced THEMSELVES enough that the average person that had no clue as to what they were doing was still impressed. I don't really care if the music isn't mainstream anymore. Dance is universal. If you go out there and ABSOLUTELY KILL a funk track ANYONE would be impressed, "retro" music or not.

well anyway thats just my two cents as a fledgling locker.

-karlo

[beee]

well...the main reason that the dancers in other countries treat their dancing as a job is because they actually get PAID 2 dance....government sets aside a portion of money STRICTLY for "the arts" including street dance....the government here in the US r soo into other countries that they could really care less about "the arts".....

what it REALLY comes down 2 is the dedication of the individual...there doesn't seem to b as strong a dedication here as in other countries--paid or not....as much as the well informed locking gurus r traveling and teaching, it's difficult to get a hold of most knowledgeable people without monitary compensation....i'm not mad at people tryin 2 make a buck, but how can we advance when most of the people we seek out need 2 b paid a healthy sum?! of COURSE it's worth the money--you're learning a dance that'll stay with you if it's truly in your heart....if the government DID decide to start paying "the arts", they should first pay all the OGs n pioneers!!!! but how do we determine who's who?!...some are easy to pick out the crowd, while others will claim 2 b dancing back then, but never came out his garage....so back 2 square one....wut tha fuck?!?!?!....i'm trippin...ah well....hi.

[buddha stretch]

SOME MORE LOCKING IDEA'S....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RHFeBAymWg

[dazz band]

DOPE clip...wats tha name of tha music u guys were jamming too?

[buddha stretch]

It's Called "say What You Want To Say"...by Wood Brass & Steel....thanks

[dazz band]

thank u funky locker.peace

[benjaminlibl]

Going to just rant a little. I don't have facts to back this up, just observation.

Locking hasn't grown, because most people don't want to lock. It's just not the COOL thing to do. I've been laughed at before for locking. Not everyone can dig the stripes, or the hats, or the way we dress, and that could be a big factor. Not everyone can dig the music. Also, I don't hear much NEW funk music anymore.

[beee]

Going to just rant a little. I don't have facts to back this up, just observation.

Locking hasn't grown, because most people don't want to lock. It's just not the COOL thing to do. I've been laughed at before for locking. Not everyone can dig the stripes, or the hats, or the way we dress, and that could be a big factor. Not everyone can dig the music. Also, I don't hear much NEW funk music anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN_pG9N5KsI

[buddha stretch]

Going to just rant a little. I don't have facts to back this up, just observation.

Locking hasn't grown, because most people don't want to lock. It's just not the COOL thing to do. I've been laughed at before for locking. Not everyone can dig the stripes, or the hats, or the way we dress, and that could be a big factor. Not everyone can dig the music. Also, I don't hear much NEW funk music anymore.
YOU
A) NEED TO GET OUT MORE,& LISTEN TO MORE MUSIC,&
B)DON'T NEED TO WEAR THE *OUTFIT* TO DO THE DANCE!

[benjaminlibl]

I realize that. I don't even dress so much like that. I'm all for dressing anyway I want. Thanks Beee. I've seen that before though.

I'm not an expert on this.. I haven't even been locking for that long and is nothing but a baby when it comes to locking. Like I said, this is all opinion and I do not have any proof. Why you shouting man, haha.

Stretch, I can't find any new music. Help me out.

[mushroom-eater]

Excellent post. At least someone came up with a sensible post. Keep it coming.

[RiceX]

This is a reasonable question and hard to answer Well I'm still in highschool and Locking is the first dance I fell in love with and now I love popping and krumping but I still do Locking but not as good as before because I'm losing my funkyness. But we have dance club at my school so I always Lock Dance everywhere. And everybody, well lets say around 80% of the people don't even know what Locking is at my school dance club lol all they say is "Do you Poplock?" and I always say "There's a difference between Pop and Lock" so yeah Locking is getting forgotten but I Lock dance everytime at my school so every can always remember what it is and how it looks like and one thing is that alot of people around the world should go out and battle other form of dances with Locking, I think thats the "only" way you can show it......or something, lol i think you know what I mean. I think I'm saying that it would be spread more and more faster...and keep on locking my brotha's it can not be forgotten!

[jettol]

It is astonishing that North Amercia where dance is 'really big' has such a small locking scene in comparison to other places.

The USA dance scene is one of the toughest and probably the most glamorous to break into. As it's comprised mainly of commercial dance styles people are gonna be learning hip-hop, jazz and commercial style so they can break into the industry and this is what most people want to learn.

So you get packed hip-hop classes whilst the lockers are kind of like a specialized group not really part of the dance industry and a separate scene altogether. If locking was as in demand as hip-hop dancers by directors of music videos etc then everyone would probably be in locking classes.

Hilty & Bosch are probably 2 of the most well-known lockers out there right now and along with Go-Go Brothers they are relatively famous in Asian countires like Japan, China, Korea. Therefore because they're the dancers that are popular, locking will be the popular dance. Whereas in North America lockers are not necessarily that well known compared to dancers/ choreographers in other styles.

Back to the original question I believe locking has progressed and some of the new crop of lockers definitely have their own style. And I think because of things like YouTube it can only get popular - and the more progress will be seen.

P.S. Scramblelock has great suggestions on how to further the scene. Just need more people doing this kind of stuff and good lockers teaching.

[Boogiewalker]

Word... LA has some surprises coming... Trust me, next Homeland Battle this summer, there are going to be some definite "up and comers" in the locking jams... Same thing for NorCal... It's slowly growing...

[fromthetown]

Just imo...

To me, locking didn't spread like Popping did because it wasn't hood enough.

I know the early cats doing it were probably street dudes, but locking had a more performance vibe to it. Popping, like Bboying, had an aggression that was better suited for battle. Remember as popping was growing, it fit seamlessly into hip hop culture which was very hood and very battle-centric and aggressive.

[scramblelock]

the performance vibe is only half the story

locking is as much "hood" as popping or bboying....it was born in south central los angeles

i agree some aspects of the dance have been propagated to extremes that can turn a newcomer off to it.....(crazy outfits, etc)....but theres a lot of resources out now for a person to really understand about the origins of the dance

www.lockerlegends.net is a good start, lots of good posts in the forum by different OGs as well

also a blog post by OG skeeter rabbit, very informative

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=87783970&blogId=424313908

[khanage]

I'm just a beginning to get into locking and from what i gather, locking is about being funky. What kind of concepts do you use when your locking freestyle? eg beat manipulation, it is possible to create a story using locking moves, air/ground work?

Khanage

[LockyBalboa]

Khanage,

I'd say once you've learned the foundations ie. the basic "rules" of locking, anything goes. Beat manipulation? Go for it. Story telling? Please do. Just don't overdo it so that the dance becomes unrecognisable.

[Jecs Duminy]

Espeon, max its happiness (by walking with it, giving it haircuts, massages, etc.) during the daytime (4am-8pm)

[Boby Lashly]

Dear One, The only thing that matters here is that you are taken care of by calling your doctor and asking he or she all of your questions. These are questions for a professional doctor. Please call your doctor asap and tell them about the side affects and it might be the ritalin. Good luck and take good care.

[kerwin]

Thanks for the great discussion forum.its really use full to me to help out me in locking dance.