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View Full Version : Listening to the music and true musicality.


inventfmc
04-15-2008, 05:52 PM
This is a series of posts from a thread over on bboy.org discussing how to listen to music and musicality.
They are in sequence, but some are responses to specific questions, I'll leave those out as you can still tell what is going on. (with the exception of the opening question)
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can someone teach me how to listen to the music ?
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Step 1:
Take a basic music theory class.

If you don't want to do that... then look this stuff up, and get an understanding of all this...
Measure
Beat
Common Time
Pulse
Notes (and the various lengths)
Rhythm
Melody
Harmony
(Be able to distinguish those last two when you are listening to something)

EVERYONE here should have a basic understanding of these things. These are the foundations of ALL music. If you understand them, it makes listening to the music easier. It also improves your understanding of the STRUCTURE of a song and will help your ability to interpret the sounds you hear.
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"Originally Posted by Bboy-LoVe View Post
you gotta point there inventfmc
but style does matter also!
but that depends on what syle we r talkin about
im talkin bout foundation/style!
if ya got good style, you cant lose bro!
get what i am sayin???
so letz not hate on other bboyz!
love you all!!! lol"

Love, you're misinterpreting my words.

To me style is above ANY tricks. But your style doesn't mean anything if you can't rock it to the music. You can have the best style abilities in the world, but if you can't sync it with the music, you're not dancing. You're just moving.

And yes, I can knock on bboys, because even a lot with style don't know how to listen to the music and use the music as an extention of their moves.

Look:
You're moves are a weapon.
The music is a weapon also.

You're moves are like a machine gun. You can kill, but you'll run out of bullets.
Use the music, it's like a napalm bomb. It does a lot of damage, but it's area is limited.

Use your moves WITH the music, it's like a nuclear bomb. Not only will you flatten everything within a 20 mile radius, but you'll continue killing for decades past when you rocked it that one moment in time.
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Anyways:
Hmmm... Whether you guys are in HS or college, or none of the above, go to a community college or see if your school has a course on basic musicianship or music appreciation. Either of those will teach you better ways of listening to music.

I can't say enough how much my knowledge of music (and having studied/performed classical music) has developed from actually LEARNING about music instead of doing something like asking on a message board how to listen to music and how to hear things. I can type about that stuff for days, but I'd need to find musical examples and really create a whole course, when you guys should go and discover stuff for yourself.

How about this... for those of you who have played an instrument or sang or anything like that, can you relate your knowledge of music and its structure and how it has affected your dancing?

I'll start with a new post about mine.
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I actually started my journey into music in the 5th grade. We had an introduction to music and did singing for two weeks and playing in band (trumpet) for two weeks. The band director demonstrated the other instruments played in the band and said the flute was the hardest, so I wanted to take it up for the challenge.

Later on I became a member of a couple different orchestras throughout middle school and high school. When you really study music theory (which is something I despised) then you realize that there are chord progressions in music that tell you a change is coming. This rings true for classical, rock, blues and jazz (and others, I'm just trying to keep basic). A chord is a series of notes played at one time. So, when it moves from one chord to the next to the next to the next, then you can pretty much assume where the music is headed.

As I was saying, I was never big into theory (or counting when I was waiting during rests in the music) so I would listen for the changes and the times when I was supposed to come in. Playing in an orchestra, another thing I would do is try to hear ALL of the parts that were being played at one time (so I could listen out for certain cues...), so I learned how to listen and tune into only specific sounds, melodies, harmonies that most people wouldn't hear normally.

This brings me to popping:
musicality is something a lot of people talk about. One person in the beginning of this thread said something about listening for the little noises that come up. (Like say in chromeo's music, how they have the little breaks around every 8 measures). That's predictable. That's not musicality. If you're just hittin the claps and riding the straight forward beat (1234...)

Musicality has to do with listening to the MUSIC. Not the beats. And then interpreting the music into a rhythm that is displayed through your body.

Music, and leading into musicality, is the horns, the guitar, the piano, the tones of the vocals... etc. It's being able to hear all of those at one time and selecting which one you want to move to. Then it's also using combinations of those rhythms to create new rhythms and really a new "body music" to express the visual movement of the song. (It's easy to say "how does a song move?" but its another to put it into movement). That's why I say (and I recently found out Rennie Harris uses a similar analogy) that when you are popping (or doing hip-hop/house/freestyle, etc) then its like you're a jazz musician, you have freedom to do whatever you want within the limitations of the music, but those limitations are few, so you can create a whole new part of the song with your body and your dance movements.

If anyone is confused by this, please ask questions. I want y'all to get what I'm talking about.
Invent

PS- The stuff chromeo does... that was earlier called the "kinky sounds..." haha
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"Originally Posted by kentchichi
and when i try to switch to another say instrument or rhythm that can be found in the music, it just seems weird.. when is it the right time then to transition to another part such going from the guitar to lyrics or whichever?"


if you wanna talk about a basic musical transition, you would revert to the clap, as that should be your functional baseline. Again, on a basic level, you would do that at an end of an 8 count. The clap is basically the foundation that you set your musical rollercoaster on(visually speaking)
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continued in next post....

inventfmc
04-15-2008, 05:58 PM
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Seriously... Drareg... there's no more for me to say.

What you need to do is start EXPLORING the music you are dancing to, and exploring your dance movements.
How you interpret the music is strictly personal and is something you need to discover for yourself. It's like you asking me "Invent, who am I? What defines me?" I would NEVER answer that because that's for you to figure out on your own and then show to the world.

Listen to the music, start moving WITH it, not TO it...
Then you'll discover musicality.
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Also... you know what's sad...



No one ever told me what musicality was. Just that I needed it.

Punks. haha.
(after someone mentioned needing to have someone teach them musicality)
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Haven't you guys ever heard of dance theory. It's like music theory but it analyzes musicality and how come moves look natural or forced. So there is a way to give a definition to musicality.
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More words of wisdom:

The movement of the music lends to the movement of the dance.
The movement of the dance lends to the movement of the music.

There is an relationship that a lot of poppers are missing when it comes to our dance and how we interpret the music.

A lot of you might be a bit young for this analogy (due to lack of life experiences) but imma use it anyways.

For someone who makes porn movies, all they are doing is having sex. No emotions, no feelings. Just actions. Just movement. And it's just two people going through the movements with no real connectivity. They move in relation TO each other.

For someone who is making love, there are all the emotions, the feelings, the passion, the tenderness, the desire... and the two bodies link up as one, their breaths sync up, their heart rates, they feelings for one another. Their souls join together, for that moment in time, inseparable. They move in relation WITH each other.


Obviously, the porn is how 99% of poppers move to music. They just do it.

Making love is how DANCERS move with music and interact with it.

Are you guys poppers or dancers? Do you wish to be more than just a popper? If you just wanna be a popper, then for God's sake, stop asking about musicality, because you will never get it until you decide you want to be something more.

Invent
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Seriously... you guys need to re-read only the posts i made... (i know it sounds conceited...) seriously... i gave you guys the keys to the kingdom, opened the door, and said "come in..." and know y'all are asking "how do I walk in the door?"

Just to let you know also...
I've been popping for 5 1/2 years. It took me 2 years to get on beat. I've been working on musicality for 3 1/2 years and I'm just starting to realize what MY sense of musicality truly is... I've known how to find it for about a year now... so for a year I've been exploring how to unlock it.

So just friggin go and work on yourselves,,,
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I have something to say invent... Firstly, the more i dance the more i actually begin to understand why ppl is saying dance to express not to impress... It is actually VERY VERY VERY hard to understand this unless there are ppl around you that understand it or some1 to shine the way. You and chippa are the two ppl who shined my way for this, i thank you for this.

Now.. i want to input my Expierience into this thread hoping to help any1 out there.
I've been playing the piano since i can remeber, my family is a music family so yea, i played at a very very young age (my mum even took her final music test when i was 5 months old).. so yea i've lived with music all through my life.. i stopped playing the piano in grade 11 because i did not want to take any more exams(i was at grade 4 piano in aus when i stopped but believe me, i was far surpassed that)... I was actually quite talented in expression of music (not being up myself) but i only liked playing trendy slow rnb songs or pop songs... i really felt that type of music..
Anyways relating to popping..
I see popping as an art as i'm sure many of you do too. The first MOST important thing i reckon ppl who are trying to understand musicality and feeling is to actually learn how to seperate the difference between some1 with gd musicality is and bad musicality is. This is exactly the same as piano as in popping, in piano you can have some1 who plays with perfect technique, not missed a beat and hammered every note right... but is he the best???.. i dont' think so.. the better piano player will change the pace of the music, still play every single note BUT still express the music. In piano, i was so in depth with every piece i played, that i actually find background information, history and author's details for the songs. Every information counts. For example, fur elise... the writer intended it to be for a women (translation For Elise).. this paticular piece takes you through a journey of that story. LITERALLY. When you listen to gd piano players play, they take you through a journey, it's an expierience to be actually listening...
In DANCING (not just popping) you INTEPRET the music and then EXPRESS it.! you may not know the history of the song BUT every part of the music will help you intepret the music. by intepreting i do not mean hitting the beats. When you listen to music, it is gd to be able to pick out certain parts of the music (eg: high hats, melody, harmony singers, the bell sound that comes in a while etc.) BUt it is more important to hear it as a whole and let the music flow through your body and enjoy it! Hear it as a whole, and then do wat it tells you. A gd starting point is acutally just staying on the clap and the bass (BUT not hitting the bam bam bam bams or the clap clap clap clap, i mean the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 beats)
I struggled really hard with dancing because i wanted to express the music., but the way i did it all through my life was actually playing it on the piano so yea, i'm still not that gd at it.
Invent is saying that you should learn basic music APPRECIATION... because it is helpful... You dance to music, if you can't even appreciate it then how can you move to it and let it control you? I may not be the best person to trust because of my ability in popping right now but i'm 100% sure that by learning basic music theory or even learning how to play an instrument will help... It will help you understand music and like invent says, it's a weapon... But Even futhur from that, music is what (for me anyways) releases me into this zone where i just float lightly and i'm in my own world in the music. Anyways i hope wat i wrote make sense, english is my second language so yea, i'm not that gd at writingTt.TT
ps: i'll keep adding to this thread whenever i think of something new... i can't just sit here at 12:30 in the night and put down everything i want to write lol
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"Originally Posted by HKflame
You dance to music, if you can't even appreciate it then how can you move to it and let it control you?"

DAMN FOOOOOLLL!!!!!!!!! Besides myself and Chip... that's probably the best damn thing ever said about music and musicality on ALL the forums I've read!!!


Thank you very much for your story HK. You got it right with what youre feeling and trying to do. Just keep working at it, and you'll get it...


On an interesting note, I was at a Rennie Harris masterclass and he was teaching house (unfortunately I only got to watch the class), and he said towards the end some words about expressing the song and matching your dance with the song. He actually recommended researching the songs to discover more about them. The particular one he used was a guy singing about losing his love and how he struggles to go on (and it was a true story about the composer/singer of the song).

GREAT POST!!!
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Oh... and also...
Yeah it is great to develop your sense of art when you have others around you that can help, guide, and inspire. But straight up bro, I never had that.
Yeah I live in Cali and there's a lot of dope poppers here...

But there's only a handful in the world that are on the path that I am on.

You need to be careful in who you watch (ie- this is a generalization but... the korean cats have false musicality). I woulda dare to say that all the boog cats... nope... they don't have it. BUT IT'S POSSIBLE WITH BOOG!!! Especially with how that style is so perfect for sitting in the beat, you can ride out rhythms easily (but 99% of people boog wrong or just copy Sam and don't add their own to it...not to mention they don't know real musicality).

Someone like Frantick... I know he can make it do what it do with musicality and form. That man makes it an art. Chip... he makes it an art too... Pandora... makes it an art... Jrock, makes it an art (when he makes great clips like the Jrock for AJ clip...). I'm sure Boogie IQ makes it an art, cuz that dude is smart on really on his...

It'll all come together... sooooooooon....
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That is all of the important posts so far. It's now a stickie over on bboy.org in the main funkstyles section. If you guys wanna contribute here or over there feel free. I'll migrate the posts back and forth.

Hope someone learns something from this. It has a lot of my true feelings towards this dance and the community.

itstitoitstito
04-15-2008, 06:41 PM
just love the music u dance to
if u dont like that kinda music why bother dance to it and overload it like doin all the school homeworks.. just to get better so called "musicality"

i think that is way out of line ^_^
________
Buy e cigarettes (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)

Konfusion
04-15-2008, 08:16 PM
good Luck :)

Konfusion
04-15-2008, 08:22 PM
i been thinking about this for years. i just picked most of it up naturally by listening.. but i gave up trying to explain it to people. half of the people dont listen. its fine for me if people dance wrong to what they think is on music. As long as i know what it is and try to do it myself thats all that matters. I find it funny though and quite entertaining when someone says this guy is so on music and i know its so not on the music. Or if it is its like kindergarden level.. Another thing is if people do get the musicality correct can they do it with clean dancing form? or just do stupid stuff that dont make sense to random sounds?

My focus is Musicality + Form

i think you need both to be amazing.

k-tick
04-16-2008, 07:42 AM
Question: What is "riding the beat" or "sitting in the pocket" I was never sure what those where. Is there something you can do to achieve this?

buddha stretch
04-16-2008, 08:33 AM
Question: What is "riding the beat" or "sitting in the pocket" I was never sure what those where. Is there something you can do to achieve this?
LISTEN TO THE MUSIC!

TETRIS
04-17-2008, 07:43 AM
to the topic/discussion:

I would say its def easier said than done! Its all about how your body interprets the music :-)
Its one of those things that you just have to feel. You cant just read it, or no one can tell you how to feel the music.

Ali Freez
04-21-2008, 07:43 PM
to the topic/discussion:

I would say its def easier said than done! Its all about how your body interprets the music :-)
Its one of those things that you just have to feel. You cant just read it, or no one can tell you how to feel the music.

Just look at Frantick when he goes off, that's a good example...a very good example I might add...he he

inventfmc
09-05-2008, 10:30 AM
Bump... Sticky This Tetris!!!

2(s)hawt
09-09-2008, 04:10 AM
just love the music u dance to
if u dont like that kinda music why bother dance to it and overload it like doin all the school homeworks.. just to get better so called "musicality"

i think that is way out of line ^_^

yes i agree u are way out of line


invent man tho u havnt been given the sticky...this thread is so valuable!
even tho im from bboy.org i dont remember reading about the intimacy part

im gonna make sure i got all that music vocabulary down too...in the meantime im gonna have sex with some music lol peace

King-of-Kurry
09-09-2008, 06:12 PM
Josh: haha (hey no sex b4 marriage)

Tetris: Definitely Sticky this.

Invent: Missed the knowledge you brought to bboy.org ever since i stopped going on it. Two words popped (no pun intented) into my mind after reading your and Hks post. Dope and truth.
Where i stand is similar to Tetris. You can explain musicallity and dancing to someone, but the person will only get it when they experience it themselves, feel it for themselves and love the music through their dancing by themselves. Whats great about talking and discussing about this is that it creates a clearer picture/goal/aim to poppers wanting to become dancers.
Huge respect.

Juage
11-25-2008, 01:58 AM
is musicality that , people can see music from your dancing, if it is ...
then i like to ask what im thinking much ..
when i see Kite popping i can see music very easily but some poppers i cant notice their musicality.. is this becouse my musicality is "simple"
or just the musicality i cant see, isnt there .. ?

Chippa
12-01-2008, 11:11 AM
It could be both...but it depends on your definition of musicality. In essence, it depends on the dancer(to show you the music). They should be able to convey the song with their movement, while keeping musical and movement transitions intact.