Obama = Socialism Be informed.

[O7]

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153

Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'

Barack Obama tells a plumber in Ohio he wants to "spread the wealth around," eliciting criticism that his economic recovery plan is socialist in nature.





What is never mentioned, in regards to Obama's plan to "give a tax-break to 95% of the people", is that 30% of the people do not pay taxes at all.

This means that those people, most of whom are not working, will get a check in the mail.




Another thing that is never mentioned, is the tax increases on small businesses, and the rest of businesses, which are the ones whom create jobs.

Let alone the fines, that he plans to impose, if they do not submit to his socialistic, and impossibly expensive, government run healthcare plan.

[pakelika10]

socialism started wit....the bailout...concept........when government takes over private companies and banks(yes some companies i understand..but not all)

let the free market be the free market....

they wipe wall streets credit clean..they should do that to all americans..since we are paying for it...

money spent on the war...after saddam was relieved of power...would have already....paid for free health care...and the relief of katrina....and put an end to homelessness/hunger in our country...

fix america first..b4 we worry about others...


both candidates are flawed......but i dont buy into a war that cost 3-4billion a week...thats suppose to go on according to mccain(his words)..100 yrs...

both parties are focused on the wrong things.......imo

[O7]

I agree with you.


About the war, I'd point out that almost all the Democrats complaining NOW about the war, were the very same people whom voted for it.


Our intelligence showed they had WMDs. Other country's intelligence showed the same thing.

Even Bill Clinton stated that he thought they had WMDs.


Yet somehow, "Bush lied". lol




That's the type of irrational emotionalistic lost touch with reality type of ignorance that scares me.


We free a country of a brutal dictator, who rapes and tortures children.

Yet somehow we didn't do anything good, since Bush is the one in charge.

[Skip718]

Originally Posted by O7

That's the type of irrational emotionalistic lost touch with reality type of ignorance that scares me.


We free a country of a brutal dictator, who rapes and tortures children.

Yet somehow we didn't do anything good, since Bush is the one in charge.

This goes on in many countries that aren't "Oil Rich". So why did we send troops over there to get rid of this guy, when this has been going on in Africa and MaNY other nations for Many years.. Yet we decide to Go into Iraq to liberate these folks and to "Share" in the revenues from the oil fields..

Some liberation!

[jigsaw]

We killed over 1 million Iraqi military and civillians... injured thousands more... displaced thousands more.

If all we wanted to do was takeout Sadaam we could have done so w/o taking over this country.

We have not done good, don't kid yourself.

[Rippin' Richie]

Back on topic...



Obama is a socialist. No doubt about it.


The bailout is socialist. No doubt about it.


Bush is a socialist. No doubt about it.


If you believe the government should take money from a person that works for it, and give it to somebody that did not work for it, then YOU are a socialist.



You can't have free-dom AND free-stuff. You have to pick one.


People fought, bled and died for freedom. Now it's being voted away by people that don't even know what it means.

[waveomatic]

Freedom has a price. Some pay in money, some have payed in blood. But no one will give you "freedom", you make it seem like there are jobs for everyone, they just don't want to work, they just want free stuff. Well, have you seen unemployment lately? Our government failed them, lets not let the people of this country fail as well in on our fellow American too. Help thy neighbor, right? I don't mean to just give money to those that don't want to work, I agree we need to look deep in our programs like welfare and the likes, I just think that we as a people have to pitch in for this countries mistakes, because we elected the leaders that put us in this whole, the accountability also lies on us, even if we didn't vote Bush, don't think just party, think country.

[pakelika10]

in the immortal words..of the corporate avenger....


anarchy thru capitalism......(who woulda thought....besides us...over a decade ago)

taxes are stealing......


unfortunately..we are in a position....of choosing......a lesser......bad....

and just becuase we have an election....doesnt mean...bush is leaving....

he has to jan 20,09......

to see what else ...can be ruined..or depleted...

mccain sucks..he is the ultimate flipflopper..palin..is just......well its obvious...bad choice...

if republicans..really wanted to win......vp..shoulda been ron paul...honestly..but we kno they would never done that..but they would of won..easily....

obama.......sounds good...and has...alot more to bring to the table...on a world view of our country...but..4 yrs...it will be hard..to accomplish...alot...who knows...lets hope..

but there is

to much big business...to much religion....involved in politics....

i wanna see a person run..that will know how to fix america first......and foremost...

so....
socialism.........then communism..is sittin in front of our faces..and they've done a masterful job...of keepin american citizens...at odds...so they wont stand up and make a stand and realize that

democracy...is almost gone.....and nobody cares.....

its up to us..and youth to really realize whats at stake here...in the next 10 yrs.....

freedom...will become a story you tell ur kids...that americans use to have....

we live in an interesting time ...in history........


its up to the people..to decide if they want freedom....

and the two party system is so corrupt.....that its time for a change ...and put government back in the position its suppose to play.....

freedom is a state of mind ......then it goes from there...on...


pakelika 4 president....

[G]

Not that I'm generally in favor of either candidate's proposed policies or solutions to the clusterfuck that is our economy, but let us keep in mind that "socialism" has become a loaded phrase that evokes unsubstantiated emotions. In reality, everything a government does is a form of socialism. It is an entity that provides services for the society in which is derives its power from. Socialism is everything from providing state police and a national military to homeless shelters to public schools, to government contracts for private businesses and funding for scientific research. These are all broad forms of socialism, so arguing that something is "socialist" isnt saying anything. That's what a government is there for: to use its collective resources to provide a social benefit for its population. You can argue about the specifics, like "is the bailout bill the appropriate response?" or whatever, but flat out saying it's socialism doesnt mean shit.

[Rippin' Richie]

Originally Posted by G

let us keep in mind that "socialism" has become a loaded phrase that evokes unsubstantiated emotions. In reality, everything a government does is a form of socialism. It is an entity that provides services for the society in which is derives its power from. Socialism is everything from providing state police and a national military to homeless shelters to public schools, to government contracts for private businesses and funding for scientific research. These are all broad forms of socialism, so arguing that something is "socialist" isnt saying anything. That's what a government is there for: to use its collective resources to provide a social benefit for its population. You can argue about the specifics, like "is the bailout bill the appropriate response?" or whatever, but flat out saying it's socialism doesnt mean shit.

This is totally false and very dangerous thinking.


Socialism is taking money from people that earned it and giving it to people that did not. When the government pays somebody in the military, that person EARNED the money. That IS NOT socialism.


The government is supposed to secure our right to property, which means they are supposed to punish theft, NOT ENGAGE IN THEFT!


Saying it's all socialism is like when some preacher gets busted for adultery and says "well, we're all sinners." He's trying to make it look like everybody is the same and he's no worse.


There is such a thing as RIGHT and WRONG.

There is MORAL and IMMORAL.


Theft is WRONG and IMMORAL no matter who is doing it.

At least common criminals take some risk when they steal. People that vote for politicians to steal for them, risk nothing.

[Skip718]

Originally Posted by G

Not that I'm generally in favor of either candidate's proposed policies or solutions to the clusterfuck that is our economy, but let us keep in mind that "socialism" has become a loaded phrase that evokes unsubstantiated emotions. In reality, everything a government does is a form of socialism. It is an entity that provides services for the society in which is derives its power from. Socialism is everything from providing state police and a national military to homeless shelters to public schools, to government contracts for private businesses and funding for scientific research. These are all broad forms of socialism, so arguing that something is "socialist" isnt saying anything. That's what a government is there for: to use its collective resources to provide a social benefit for its population. You can argue about the specifics, like "is the bailout bill the appropriate response?" or whatever, but flat out saying it's socialism doesnt mean shit.

Amen to that.. !

But seriously, the socialistic system in america just went into overdrive with the bailout packages and if obama gets in office, the universal health care system the powers that be are putting into place.

Folks looking at Obama/McCain/Bush need to look further.. These duds are puppets for the real gangsters who run the earth.

[Boogiewalker]

Yeah, dude... but did you see the massive hits that Obama has? I mean, I know McCain's got some pretty nasty cobra and dope wave sets, but Obama shakes the ground... seriously...

I think the real winning ticket is Obama-Taco vs. McCain-Slick Dogg. Now THERE is something that will truly decide the fate of the free world...

FOREVER!...

don't forget to vote... because if you don't, then you lose the chance to say "I told you so!!"

cynically yours,

peas,

BW

[wajero2007]

they are both puppets... so weird many ppl dont see... SO WEIRD!

[wajero2007]

Enddahl:

"Financial Warfare Over The
Future Of Global Bank Power
By F. William Engdahl
10-9-8
What's clear from the behavior of European financial markets over the past two weeks is that the dramatic stories of financial meltdown and panic are deliberately being used by certain influential factions in and outside the EU to shape the future face of global banking in the wake of the US sub-prime and Asset-Backed Security (ABS) debacle. The most interesting development in recent days has been the unified and strong position of the German Chancellor, Finance Minister, Bundesbank and coalition Government, all opposing an American-style EU Superfund bank bailout. Meanwhile Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson pursues his Crony Capitalism to the detriment of the nation and benefit of his cronies in the financial world. It's an explosive cocktail that need not have been.

Stock market falls of 7 to 10% a day make for dramatic news headlines and serve to foster a broad sense of unease bordering on panic among ordinary citizens. The events of the last two weeks among EU banks since the dramatic state rescues of Hypo Real Estate, Dexia and Fortis banks, and the announcement by UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, Alistair Darling of a radical shift in policy in dealing with troubled UK banks, have begun to reveal the outline of a distinctly different European response to what in effect is a crisis 'Made in USA.'

There is serious ground to believe that US Goldman Sachs ex CEO Henry Paulson, as Treasury Secretary, is not stupid. There is also serious ground to believe that he is actually moving according to a well-thought-out long-term strategy. Events as they are now unfolding in the EU tend to confirm that. As one senior European banker put it to me in private discussion, 'There is an all-out war going on between the United States and the EU to define the future face of European banking.'

In this banker's view, the ongoing attempt of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and France's Nicholas Sarkosy to get an EU common 'fund', with perhaps upwards of $300 billion to rescue troubled banks, would de facto play directly into Paulson and the US establishment's long-term strategy, by in effect weakening the banks and repaying US-originated Asset Backed Securities held by EU banks.

Using panic to centralize power

As I document in my forthcoming book, Power of Money: The Rise and Decline of the American Century, in every major US financial panic since at least the Panic of 1835, the titans of Wall Street-most especially until 1929, the House of JP Morgan-have deliberately triggered bank panics behind the scenes in order to consolidate their grip on US banking. The private banks used the panics to control Washington policy including the exact definition of the private ownership of the new Federal Reserve in 1913, and to consolidate their control over industry such as US Steel, Caterpillar, Westinghouse and the like. They are, in short, old hands at such financial warfare to increase their power.

Now they must do something similar on a global scale to be able to continue to dominate global finance, the heart of the power of the American Century.

That process of using panics to centralize their private power created an extremely powerful, concentration of financial and economic power in a few private hands, the same hands which created the influential US foreign policy think-tank, the New York Council on Foreign Relations in 1919 to guide the ascent of the American Century, as Time founder Henry Luce called it in a pivotal 1941 essay.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that people like Henry Paulson, who by the way was one of the most aggressive practitioners of the ABS revolution on Wall Street before becoming Treasury Secretary, are operating on motives beyond their over-proportional sense of greed. Paulson's own background is interesting in that context. Back in the early 1970's Paulson started his career working for a rather notorious man named John Erlichman, Nixon's ruthless adviser who created the Plumbers' Unit during the Watergate era to silence opponents of the President, and was left by Nixon to 'twist in the wind' for it in prison.

Paulson seems to have learned from his White House mentor. As co-chairman of Goldman Sachs according to a New York Times account, in 1998 he forced out his co-chairman, Jon Corzine 'in what amounted to a coup' according to the Times.

Paulson, and his friends at Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase, had a strategy it is becoming clear, as did the Godfather of Asset Backed Securitization and deregulated banking, former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, as I have detailed in my earlier series here, Financial Tsunami, Parts I-V.

Knowing that at a certain juncture the pyramid of trillions of dollars of dubious sub-prime and other high risk home mortgage-based securities would come falling down, they apparently determined to spread the so-called 'toxic waste' ABS securities as globally as possible, in order to seduce the big global banks of the world, most especially of the EU, into their honey trap.

They had help. In recent testimony under oath by Eric Dinallo, the Superintendent of the New York Insurance Department at the AIG Bailout Oversight Hearing, into the AIG rescue by Paulson, Dinallo testified that funding cutbacks in recent years directed by the Bush-Cheney Administration had reduced the responsible department that should regulate or watch over the $80 trillions in Asset Backed Securities (ABS), which included the toxic sub-prime and Alt-A mortgage securities and much more. The Bush Administration took the staff from more than one hundred people down to one---yes that was not a typo. One as in 'uno.'

Was that just ideological budget cutting fervor, or was it deliberate? Was former Goldman Sachs man, the man who convinced the President to hire Paulson, Bush's former Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), Joshua Bolten, now the President's Chief of Staff, responsible for insuring there was no effective government oversight on the exploding securitization of mortgage assets?

These are perhaps some questions which the good Congressmen ought to be asking people like Henry Paulson and Josh Bolten, and not such red herring questions as how large Richard Fuld's bonus pay at Lehman was. Are Mr Bolten's fingerprints on the corpse here? And why is no one questioning the role of Paulson as CEO of Goldman Sachs, then the most aggressive promoter of exotic and other Asset Backed Securitization products on Wall Street?

It now would appear that the Paulson strategy was to use a crisis-a crisis that was pre-programmed and predictable as far back as 2003 when Josh Bolten became head of OMB-when it exploded, to panic the more conservative European Union governments into rushing to the rescue of US toxic waste assets.

[wajero2007]

Were that to have happened, it would in the process destroy what was left of sound EU banking and financial institutions, bringing the world one step closer to a global money market controlled by Paulson's cronies-US-style Crony Capitalism. Crony Capitalism is certainly appropriate here. Paulson's predecessor at both Goldman Sachs and at Treasury, Robert Rubin, liked to accuse the Asian bankers of Thailand, Indonesia and other lands hit with the speculative attacks of US-financed hedge funds in 1997 of 'crony capitalism,' leaving the impression the crisis was home grown in Asia and not the result of a deliberate executed attack by US-financed financial institutions to eliminate the Asia Tiger model among other goals, and turn Asia into the funder of US debt.

Interesting to note is that Rubin is now a Director of Citigroup, obviously one of Paulson's crony bank 'survivors,' and the bank which to date has had to write off the largest sum in toxic waste securitized assets.

If the allegation of pre-planned panic, a la the Panic of 1907 is accurate, and it is a big if, then the plan workedSup to a point. That point came over the weekend of October 3, coincidentally the national unification holiday of Germany.

Germany breaks with US model

In closed door talks well into the evening of Sunday October 5, Alex Weber the hard-nosed head of the Bundesbank, BaFin head Jochen Sanio and representatives of the Berlin coalition Government of Chancellor Merkel came up with a rescue package for Hypo Real Estate of a nominal ?50 billion. However, behind the dramatic headline number, as Weber pointed out in a September 29 letter to Finance Minister Peer Steinbr